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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  December 16, 2016 3:00am-6:01am PST

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of 95. a public memorial will be held tomorrow afternoon. and that does it for us on this friday. i'm louis burgdorf, alongside betty nguyen. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ ♪ merry christmas >> so people say, mr. trump, now they say, mr. president-elect, can you believe it? can you believe this? just call me donald, folks. just call me donald. my message tonight is for all americans, from all parties, all beliefs, all walks of life, whether you are african-american, hispanic-american or asian-american or whatever the hell you are, -- remember that we are all americans.
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♪ >> good morning, everyone. it's friday. waiting here, december 16th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set -- >> donnie, just call me donald. >> yeah. >> what do you -- >> or donnie baby or anything. but i love the "whatever the hell you are." but i do -- he did not mention the tribe. you're grinning at that. >> why should he. he's appointing an ambassador that is moving everything to jerusalem. >> as you can see, donnie deutsch, veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnacle is here. >> legendary. >> and managing editor of bloomberg politics john heilemann is here. i didn't even see you. well, hello. >> what's up? >> nice to have you on. >> so donnie, you're the ad man. this is breaking all the rules. can you -- the guy has won, all right. you're supposed to be going down and fishing off of the florida keys or whatever, or, you know,
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with some harry truman shirt on right now and he's running around and working still. he's like campaigning still. first of all, good idea, bad idea? secondly, can you think of a product -- like take this -- because at the end politics is marketing. it has broken as many rules in their field as donald trump -- every day. breaks a different rule. >> talking about product, his brands is being a contrarian and breaking rules and being a disrupters. the one thing i want to hit on that you said is he's still campaigning. that's got to shift a little bit. there's still -- whether it is his not acknowledgement of the russian hacking or fighting with graden carter about restaurant reviews. he somehow has to make -- >> let me ask you this -- you said most people like it. he's a disrupter. they like seeing him picking these fights. they, obviously, do. they all rally behind him.
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i wouldn't do it. i don't think it's a great idea to do it. i'm talking about -- his people love it. >> his people. i don't know if the consensus in the country right now, whether it is democrats and, obviously, been a lot of polls and his approval rating is higher but still demonstrably lower than any president 30 or 40 days into -- after being elected, he's got to at some point own that he's won, instead of proving that he's won, and i would like my president, at this point, to be saying more than anything, because i think the biggest story of him and the election is not him winning but the russian hacking, this is really concerning, that's what i would like the leader of our country to be saying at this point. and for some reason he's still in that campaign mode going, no, no, no, had nothing to do with it. >> let's get to news. >> actually, i saw him talking about foreign policy in that speech last night and i think that everyone saying he needs to do this, needs to do that, needs to just calm down and see what
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happens here. i think he's communicating what policy, perhaps, at some point might come -- >> he's not the president yet. he's free do some stuff like this. >> he's got space to still play in the outside game. i don't think that's that big of a problem. when he's president of the united states, he'll shift fully to being the president of the united states. for now he has some space to go out and have some fun. >> he's a 70-year-old, fully formed adult. this is who he is. >> right. >> he's not going to change. this is who he is. >> this will take -- it will morph into what kind of president he is. >> no, that's the point. there's no morphing it's happened. >> this is probably how he's going to be when he's president. >> and communicating policy might happen this way. ruckus crowds greeted the president-elect, a new nbc poll shows americans remain deeply divided about what kind of president donald trump will be. 34% of americans think trump will be a good or very good president.
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nearly the same amount, 36%, think he will be a poor president. trump spent most of his nearly hour-long speech talking about his election win, the media, and his endorsements. >> we won in a landslide. this was a landslide victory. it was an amazing evening and the people on espn, sports people, they said, it was the single greatest event they've ever seen. they've seen football and baseball and boxing, and they said it was the greatest. we are just doing great in pennsylvania. in fact, i won it twice, right? i won it twice. because i won it and then we had this scam operation, let's ask for a recount and we won it again and we won wisconsin and we won michigan. no, i love it. i hope somebody asks for a recount because i love winning. we're winning three and four and five times. i love pennsylvania but we didn't even need you guys, isn't
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that terrible? because they wanted so long. they took all of your glory away, right? >> there's something different about a crowd before the election, like when i was here a few weeks ago, and after the election. before the election, they are brutal. they are so crazed. you're like crazed people and that's good, i like that. and now, no, and now, you're laid back. hey. hey. on ward, mr. trump, onward. >> opening at the tiki lounge on route 22 in new jersey comedy stylings of donald trump. >> oh, my gosh. yeah. >> i change my mind. >> you just said -- >> maybe he shouldn't be doing that. >> you know the thing is, you look at the poll numbers and it's -- the poll numbers seem to be split, about the same. he could be a good president,
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bads president, in the middle, a lot of people think he will be an average president. i just wonder whether -- i don't know. we're in unchartered territory here. that's the understatement. >> well, let's start with the poll and ask the question, or at least i will ask the question why would you take a poll like at that at this stage. come on. what kind of president do you think donald trump will be? why don't we covers the organization of his cabinet and the impact, the potential impact, that the nominees might have on policy. >> so i think that number probably goes in there. >> yeah. >> look at rex tillerson, you look at -- certainly conservatives have been very pleased by this election. >> they ought to be. >> progressives have been very disappointed by it. foreign policy people are split. >> i haven't been. >> flynn i have an issue with, bannon i have an issue and the health care guy. but i like he's putting business guys in there. i think the tillerson choice is a smart choice. spent the last 30 or 40 years making global
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relationships. a big putin question. but a lot of pragmatic choices. you know where i come down on trump but mostly the -- i like they're not cronies and i like they're outsiders and i like that -- like him or not he stayed true to what he said he was going to do. >> john heilemann, what has -- what's been official washington's view of the people he's selected so far? >> look, i think everybody has fallen in line. this goes to the central political question, right. he has appointed a guy that ran as an outsider and populace has picked not a conventional group, b because as donnie said there's business people and a different mix, but in terms of policy, straightforward republican, the people that would make the mitch mcconnell and paul ryan wings of the party happy. bunch of people from goldman sachs into office having campaigned against goldman sachs. if you're in the republican part of the party you're happy. a lot of people running federal agencies will be adopting
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conventional, very conservative again jen da. and a populace in the country you're rooting for trump because you voted for him. if you're a conservative populace. the long-term question can is, does that work politically for trump or do people look at that swath and say, at some point, hey like you were going to drain the swamp and the swamp is still full and you've become a conventional republican president. >> mike, i'm just looking at my computer and, you know, why does trump keep surviving? because of low expectations and looking at -- i have it on "the new york times" website, sunday review. their big sunday review piece. is trump a threat to democracy? stability is no guarantee of our government's future survival. come on. i mean, seriously -- and i hear these respected editors talking about people being dragged off to prison. it is so -- it sets the bar so
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low. why don't you just attack his epa choice. i mean, the fact that we're a month after the election and "the new york times" is seriously going to put the front of "sunday review" the future of democracy is threatened, is just, again, laughable and we said this when he went down the escalator the more you underestimate him. >> yeah. >> the more you vilify him, the more you play into his hands. we've been saying that nonstop. the press can't help themselves here. the fourth republican right is coming to washington, d.c., according to "the new york times" and "washington post" and a lot of publications and networks. >> i think a lot of things are going on there. i think one of them is because donald trump, his personality, his huge personality, has been so familiar to so many people in this country for so many years through the apprentice and other
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things, he's been on the scene for three decades, that large numbers of people, the elite media, whatever, they still can't get their arms around the fact that he's the president-elect of the united states. >> but is he going to undermine the constitution? is he going to be able to -- >> that's the second part. >> james mad sop and alexander hamilton. >> that's the second part of the equation. i firmly believe the second part of the equation is this -- that large elements of the elite media, whatever you want to call the "times" editorial page or "the washington post" editorial page, they in self-reflection realize that they so miscovered large elements of this campaign, spending so much time covering the e-mails, hillary clinton's e-mails and everything that was provoked by wikipedia, that they now -- >> wikileaks. >> wikileaks. >> right, right. >> that now there's a little more than a little guilt in their coverage of donald trump. >> shouldn't there be guilt
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actually in the coverage, donnie, that they actually didn't talk to anybody outside of manhattan? >> there you go. >> i mean, with we could talk about wikileaks, we can talk about hillary's e-mails, they never saw this coming because they never looked outside of their bubble. and so now they're so angry, so angry that they missed it over the past year, they've got to explain why they were blind. >> joe, i think there are two different issues. >> let me read this again. half stability is no guarantee of government's future survival. does anybody around this table or at "the new york times" really believe that our constitutional republic's future survival is now at risk because a reality tv show guy got elected? >> i think what people are concerned about, and it's very interesting -- >> no, but i'm just asking this question. >> we do have a president that from many people's perspective believe that he believes he plays outside the laws, for lack
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of a better word, starting with i genuinely believe this man says to himself my business conflicts are irrelevant. people come up to me and say -- >> no, no, no. donnie, we don't have 20 hours for you to go off topic. >> not 20 hours. >> i need you to answer my question. >> do you believe that the future of our government's survival, our constitutional republic, is at risk, because donald trump got elected president, and do you know anybody that is intelligent that understands the government, that believes, let me read this, our government's future survival is at risk? >> our government will survive. i think there is a reckless player, the likes of which we've never seen to the point the amount of people that say donnie, are you personally worried because of how you've come out against trump, that mindset that we have a guy in office, i don't think they would have said that if barack was he auto elect ord george w. bush was elected, there is a guy
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sitting in that chair that seems to play in his own band, versus the normal confines of that office. i think that -- >> but donnie, he's hired people who have been talking to -- talking to mitt romney, who's extremely critical. that's a false question. if they're asking you that question, donnie, are you scared someone you're so against is our president -- >> that's a gutteral response to what they see out there. >> have they been watching this transition. >> what do you mean, what would he do with mitt romney? humiliated him. >> considered him as secretary of state. >> paraded him around like a fool. >> no, he didn't. you don't know what -- >> it with az very serious thing. >> but again -- >> i don't know what to say. >> mike barnicle, the question is this, do you have faith in the constitution, that if donnie deutsch is preyed upon by a trump administration because he spoke out against him, that we have enough checks and balances
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like let's say the attorney general of new york, there are a thousand people, are republicans like paul ryan who want to run for president in the future, that won't pick his flesh off his bones? >> i agree with you. i would only hope that someone would go after donnie. >> exactly. >> let me ask you this. if you read that line again from "the times". >> okay. >> i think they changed. >> past stability is no guarantee of our government s future survival is trump a threat to our democracy. >> i think if you change the phrase from the future of our constitutional democracy, to are you worried about our national security going forward, i think you would get a lot of people, a lot of people would say yes. >> right. but again -- that's what i'm saying. that's my point, john heilemann,
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there's always an overreach. he's always a fascist, always a nazi, he's going to chain reporters up, he's going to throw them in jail, instead of saying, that he's going to chill press freedoms and we will have to be vigilant about it. yes. he's a threat to america's national security, instead of saying the constitutional republic is at risk. >> i have a great deal of faith in america's constitutional republic, and it survived richard nixon and a civil war and a lot of threats to it. >> jimmy carter. >> hey now. >> that does not mean there won't potentially be some foundational kinds of arguments. this argument over conflicts of interest, over the clause, over whether the president-elect is going to be in violation of the constitution on the day he picks the oval office if he doesn't do something about his business holdings, i think donald trump is potentially going to press against the limits of what democratic norms have established and what the
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constitution says and we may have very big fights very early over some very foundational questions. >> great example of this, i think a great test run for this, was the russia investigation. donald trump pushed back on it very hard. mitch mcconnell immediately came out and said oh, no, any republican that does not think that we need to investigate this, has serious problems. mccain. he doesn't even have a majority in the senate if he steps out of line. this is what every president find out when they get into the office, they get elected. they think they're the first person to ever crack the code and get elected and realize like barack obama they have to figure out how to play with everybody. >> here's the thing where i think the conflicts could be greater because of the fact that you have a guy who does not care, i think we all would agree, about the future of the republican party. does not care at all. >> right. >> people like mitch mcconnell, paul ryan, other people as you suggest who have a future within the republican party who care institutionally about the senate, about those kind of
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prerogatives, those people are party men. he is not a party man, and he is not a politician or washington or care about those things. his willingness to press the limits will be much greater than prior presidents and who cared about those institutions. >> if he presses the limits he will come up against the same challenges as, let's say, congress does with the supreme court, or the president does with congress, or, you know, we even saw it with the affordable care act. you actually had justice roberts come in and uphold it as law twice. we have a very complex system of checks and balances and i've written columns about this before trump that i get so tired of republicans saying the constitution and the republic was at risk because of barack obama and before that the constitution and republic was at
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risk because of george w. bush or because of bill clinton. he went to the soviet union. i wrote this column like five years ago, i think. have a little more confident in our constitutional republic in the work of hamilton and madison. this is so tiring. worry about what you should worry about. we have an epa director who most likely denies climate change. that should be -- >> that's a headline. >> that should be on the front of "sunday review." denies climate change when temperaturesp continue to sky rocket. sea levels -- >> against a minimum wage. >> you have a guy that's going to be labor secretary that is against the minimum wage. that put commercials out nationally that would embarrass me in front of my daughter. put that on the front of the "sunday review." put general flynn's comments on the front of the "sunday quarterbac"sunday" there
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is so much policy wise to worry about instead of stupid false narratives they set up, the hyperbole, the hyper vigilance that does not serve readers well. >> the hyper vigilance led to a story that has been proved wrong about i guess trump people running after a muslim woman screaming at her. and it was tweeted all over the place. i don't want to repeat it and rehash it. and she made it up. but everybody jumped on it. everybody jumped on it because they loved the concept just like this. instead of -- >> just like donald trump -- >> what we have is a guy yesterday who came out and said, oh, now people are complaining about the russian hack, which is false. it started october 7th. instead of pointing to wacky 18-year-old, we have our -- >> in the subway -- >> "the new york times" puts this on the front of "weekend arts" and says that this nazi -- this story about nazis has special relevance in
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post-election trump america. come on. come on. worry about global warming. stop your -- stop your hyper vigilance about things that will never happen and worry about things that will. if you get a climate denier running the epa. worry about that. >> you have all of that. you've got -- >> by the way -- >> as you mentioned you have the incoming secretary of labor that doesn't believe actually in human beings doing the jobs. he wants robots doing the job. >> that's a story. >> you have the epa. you have the secretary of health and human services, potentially incoming, who wants to really privatize medicaid which means destroying medicaid. >> we had a president who ran against mexicans and muslims. when you say this is an overreaction to the nazis this was a hate mongering candidate and we cannot normalize that. i'm not saying returning it to nazi america or the republic is in danger but we have to acknowledge what this man ran on and how half the country voted
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that way. let's not dismiss that. >> we've done it every day for a year and a half now. i will be glad to send you the quotes. >> i'm not saying you're not. >> about the muslim and everything else -- >> that's where this comes from. >> but i can tell you where we are right now, we have a much greater likelihood of actually seeing climate change ignored and the paris accords torn to shreds and sea levels rising and nuclear, and a lot of other things happening than this sort of hyper vigilance that happens every time a new president gets elected. republicans did it against barack obama. >> i have to do that. >> this is not helpful. >> we blew through so many stories here. >> it detracts from the real issues, right. >> yes. i'm just laughing because mika was thinking about what happened to the news in this block. >> i'm doing it before we go to break. thank you, hileman, so much before we go to break. >> by the way, if you're an editor you want to happen just what happened with this crazy "new york times" article.
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we talked about this crazy -- >> is that the front of "the weekend review". >> you drove a lot of traffic to the times website. >> i know i did. >> this is a meeting that should have happened in different newsrooms around the country before you go to air. it's the inside voice, joe. let's go to break. let's get to other headlines. >> donry in is the one that didn't have inside voice. i did. >> no. >> but this doesn't serve -- by the way, and we've seen it again and i'm going to be quiet, but you can look at our transcripts over the past year and a half, i have warned the press, i have warned republicans. >> i know. stop with "i". >> i have warned democrats that when you do this to donald trump, you play into his hands. >> okay. >> you lower the bar so low it's easy for him to step over it. >> agree. i agree completely. hold on one second. i'm going to go to break in just a moment. i want to get in some other headlines. in south carolina yesterday, it took jurors in a courtroom less than 2 1/2 hours to find the
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charleston church gunman dylann roof guilty of 33 counts against him. the same jury made up of nine white members and three black members will decide if the self-proclaimed white supremacist is sentenced to life in prison or death. we will have much more on this story coming up later in the show. also making news, president obama has signed a disaster declaration to aid the victims of recent ten na wildfires. 14 people were killed and thousands of homes and businesses were destroyed by the flames. country music star dolly parton held a telethon this week to benefit the victims and has reportedly raised $9 million for victims so far. >> how great is dolly parton. >> dolly is great. >> finally this morning, legendary nba reporter craig staying eer -- saeger died at 6. pho known for his colorful suits and sideline reporting battled
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leukemia since 2014. steve kerr led fans in a moment of joy, honoring sager before their game last night. that's nine nice. and the milwaukee bucks took to the court wearing colorful sager strong shirts which are helping raise money to find a cure. here's a classic moment with spurs' coach gregg popovich. >> i'm here with san antonio coach gregg popovich. >> are we on? >> yes, we are. >> i have to honestly tell you this is the first time i've enjoyed doing this ridiculous interview we're required to do. it's because you're here and you're back with us. welcome back, baby. >> well thank you. in the hospital for months hoping to do this. >> ask me a couple of the main questions. >> love it. >> what a beloved guy. >> sweetheart of a guy. >> well, and showed such strength and courage through that entire process. publicly. >> still ahead on "morning joe," live reports from our nbc white house and pentagon correspondents on president obama's pledge to punch back
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against vladimir putin. >> by the way, we didn't talk yesterday about alan thicke. >> i know. >> another really, really wonderful guy, i'm told. >> yeah. >> a guy playing hockey with his son. >> with his kid. >> 19-year-old sop ann and apparently a great guy and great father. you know, we watched that all the time. >> coming up, reverend al sharpton and ariana huffington be join the conversation. let's go straight to bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> yeah. i see a snowy forecast followed by more cold. the worst is in northern new england. yesterday we saw snow squalls across pennsylvania. get in the whiteout situations and these epic pileups. this was in jefferson county, pennsylvania. 59 vehicles were involved. there's only about an hch in, inch and a half of snow but you saw the damage done. negative 29 windchill in maine, boston negative 15, the peak of the cold air from new england that starts to get better this afternoon and evening.
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99 million people, about one in three, under a winter weather advisory and 15 million under winter storm warnings from rapid city to milwaukee. the snowfall map the snow breaks out in areas of south dakota to minneapolis to chicago. this is three to six, maybe as much as nine inches and then in new england, many areas getting right around two to maybe as much as five inches of snow late tonight into early tomorrow morning. and then the other story will be the cold air coming down. chicago on sunday, so it's going to be negative 1 for a high, and they're supposed to play a football game at soldier field. that should be fascinating to watch. new york city we are watching cold temperatures but it will warm up over the weekend. 60 degrees and rain on sunday. what a wild roller coaster we're on. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose.
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so the "new york times" hyper vigilance weekend continues. i showed you this. a picture of sig heel and says the second season about resisting darkness finds relevance in a post-election nation complete with swastikas and somebody going sieg heil in america. >> reading the piece you make the jump to the pages, this is about a tv series. the man in the castle, television series, here's the jump headline. tv's united states of sieg heil finds an eerie relevance. >> an eerie relevance. >> oh, my gosh. >> it's a tv series. >> an eerie relevance. 6 million jews exterminated in nazi germany and they're talking
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about an eerie relevance. >> i want to state for the fact that several weeks ago in washington in a federal building there was an meeting by the lead of the alt-right that got up and sieg heiling from the white house. >> are you serious? >> did that not happen? >> no, no, no. does that mean -- >> it's a tv show. >> does that mean america's -- the future of america's democracy is at risk and we're all going to be doing this or does this mean that you have the same freaks and lunatics that we had that i remember back in the '70s people were pisted off because they were able to march in dixon, illinois -- >> sko ki. >> sko ki, illinois. >> back in the 1970s. >> maybe an overreaction to -- >> maybe an overreaction it? >> against a lot of nonwhites, islams, mexicans, guys -- >> come on. >> come on, donnie. >> i got that.
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and i don't disagree with you, but you really have to pump the brakes when you're equating the election of donald trump to the president of the united states to the holocaust. >> obviously not. and as a jew that's an insult to me. i'm trying to explain what drives -- >> let me explain to you, though, this happens every time a major republican comes on the scene. in 1964, barry goldwater, was accused of, quote, hitler-ism by nonother than martin luther king. 1968, hubert humphrey at the close of the campaign said keeping richard nixon out of the white house in 1968, is every bit as critical to civilization as the british people keeping nazis out of london in 1940. in 1972, george mcgovern said that richard nixon's foreign policy was the most evil since adolf hitler roamed the earth.
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i'm not even going to get into all the nazi analogies for ronald reagan and george w. bush. like seriously. when does this tire? i mean, should we not have a -- >> i -- >> throughout the 1972 campaign. you were stoned. >> so -- i mean seriously can we not really talk about the things we have to be nervous about, an e pa director coming in that is a climate change denier? or a guy running the labor department that wants robots to replace people? >> or his right-hand man that has retweeted anti-se met tick things or general flynn, jew jew jews. to compare in any way donald trump to hitler is an insult to donald trump and to me. >> good. >> but -- >> then we agree. >> there was a lot of race baiting during this which is -- >> we've said it, we've written about it, we've attacked general
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flynn nonstop. we've done it. but like mike said, pump the brakes, new york, times. >> i heard a president-elect talking about syria last night and i don't think we've given that enough time. >> we'll talk about that. looks like he's talking about -- >> this gets back to what we began at 5 past 6:00, two seconds, stop yelling at me in the booth, we covered -- >> yellinging at all of us. >> we covered hillary clinton's e-mails up the wa zl zoo for six months. syria and aleppo was going on -- >> has our president obama said we're going to help those people? >> what about aleppo? >> and by the way, as mika was saying and we are going to break right now, interesting donald trump last night and this is news that people should be reporting, going to talk about safe zones, talking about actually going -- >> i've never heard that. >> that's a big change from his policy during the campaign. we'll see.
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♪ 40 past the hour. time for the must-read opinion pages. syria, david ignatius write this is is in "the washington post" the fall of aleppo is a human catastrophe and also a demonstration of the perils of choosing the middle course in a military conflict. sometimes it's possible to talk and fight at the same time, but in syria, the u.s. decision to pursue a dual-track, halfway approach made the mayhem worst. a battered secretary of state, john f. kerry, made one pore plea thursday for a peaceful evacuation of what's left of aleppo. but for five years, the united states' actions haven't matched its rhetoric. kerry's only real weapon now is the gruesome suffering of the syrian people and it is gruesome and the shame it engenders on everyone who watches. that shame hangs over this administration too. >> mike barnicle we have had
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jeffrey sachs on for the past several years complaining how the cia and the united states government was trying to destabilize the assad government. and this is the middle course that david ignatius is talking about. they tried to destabilize the assad government. they got the rebels they wanted fighting. and then by the time it became obvious they needed to fund those rebels, there were so many extremists in there, the choice got more and more difficult and historians will show this, in large part, was a disaster of america's own making. >> well, largely it was, yeah. >> sort of a modern version of the bay of pigs. encourage the revolt and then leave them there to die. >> there was a point four or five years ago when we could not figure out which elements of the resistance to arm. we didn't know which elements were al qaeda or al nusra and which ones were concerned with
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top pling the assad regime. everyone knows the pivot point came when the president said we are going to draw a red line and the secretary of state, i think, i know, has fought behind the scenes within the administration for a long time about an alternative course. >> hasn't -- i would hope samantha power has also fought behind the scenes for an alternative course. >> she absolutely has. >> so she's been ignored, john kerry has been ignored. >> they haven't been ignored. i wouldn't say they've been ignored. they've been listened to. their arguments have been heard. the president of the united states -- and i -- part of me understands this, was really and remains truly reluctant to insert any large elements of american troops into syria and at some point that would become necessary. at the beginning, at the inception statement of this, the red line stage, there was a plan to take out the runways, to take out, you know, the dwipdsling
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elements of assad's air force and they chose not even to do that. >> while the civilians were being bombed and killed and the french were saying we'll get involved, barack obama pushed back even on that. >> i want to look forward and ask you this question, at this moment, given everything we've seen over trump's candidacy and foreign policy, i don't have a clue what his instincts are or what his world view is and this is going to be his war in 30 days, 35 days, what do you think he's going to do. where is his head at on this. >> everything in the campaign is, his instinct is stay out, turn it over to putin. we want nothing to do with it. what we heard last night, and what you're starting to sense is, from listening to general mattis and reading the tea leaves, he has general mattis and others saying no, you can't just stay out, you can't just turn this over to vladimir putin. we're going to have to get involved.
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what did you hear last night. you heard about safe zones. you heard about going in there to start protecting the syrian people. i suspect it's just me suspecting, i suspect if you take all of this together, it will be an international effort to provide safe zones, maybe as general hayden has said, along the turkish border. but i will tell you, very distressed by what he said during the campaign. a little more hopeful right now that maybe general mattis is having an impact on this thinking here. >> up next we will go live to charleston, south carolina, for reaction to the guilty verdict in last year's church massacre plus the reverend al sharpton joins the table. "morning joe" is coming right back.
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as we mentioned at the top of the show, it took jurors in south carolina just two hours and 20 minutes to find devout white supremacist dylann roof guilty in the shooting of nine
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worshipers last year. joining us live from outside the courthouse in charleston, gabe gutierrez, gabe? >> mika, good morning. this case is not over. a highly unusual move, dylann roof now says that he wants to represent himself during sentencing next month. coming face to face with these families again. fuelled by racism, he walked into their sanctuary and opened fire. the jury found dylann roof guilty of 33 federal counts, including hate crimes. >> i knew it was going to be guilty, guilty, guilty. >> reporter: felicia sanders, one of three survivors that awful night who testified during the trial how she watched roof take her 26-year-old son. >> not so many mothers see their son come in and leave the world. that was painful for me. >> reporter: during his closing argument the prosecutor raised his voice in anger called roof a man of immense hatred and
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tremendous cou war diswho shot his victims while they prayed and had their eyes closed. they exemplified a goodness greater than his message of hate, he said. the defense conceded the horror of the rampage but attorney david brook tried to bring up his client's mental state. >> he's still in here. >> reporter: this chilling 911 call from inside the church was among the evidence prosecutors laid out for jurors including racially inflammatory writings and a potential hit list of other churches. >> i wanted to do everything i had to do to make sure he got a conviction. >> reporter: and she did. where dylann roof failed to start the race war he wanted, felicia sanders succeeded in honoring her son's memory. >> i wear a smile and the reason i wear the smile because you look at the pictures of all nine, they all wore a beautiful smile. >> the judge warned dylann roof it was a bad decision to represent himself during sentencing next month. he's choosing to do it anyway. he has until january 3rd to
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change his mind. mika? >> nbc's gabe gutierrez, thank you. >> thank you, gabe. you know, mika, down in charleston after that happened, i've got to say, the reaction of the people was nothing short of extraordinary. it was the most christ-like of just about anything i have seen on the national stage. it was -- it was remarkable. >> joining us host of msnbc's "politics nation" and president of the national action network reverend al sharpton. >> let's talk about another charlton, north charleston shooting. does this provide you hope and others hope, that justice may be done in the slager case as well? >> you know, i was in charleston, day before yesterday, for the national black church's dr. richardson, and i actually talked to walter scott's father, who's going to come to the january 14th march in washington, part of what we're hoping is we can set a climate where the federal
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government continues the case on slager as well as -- >> civil rights case. >> the civil rights, federal civil rights case, as well as we talked there at the meeting about how to make sure there's a jury that is more representative of the community. >> and the question again -- >> there is hope you pursue this. >> let's ask, first of all, i would certainly hope that jeff sessions, if actually confirmed, would continue that civil rights case. >> got to be put front and center. >> no reason why he should not. >> senator tim scott, who is a republican, african-american, from south carolina, is meeting with him and -- >> good. >> we are putting that as one of the items on the january 14th march in washington. we intend to pursue it. >> talk about the jury. what can be done to make sure that you have a more representative jury for a community that is almost 50% black that has only one black jury member on -- >> they have to move it.
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>> no. you have to -- the county is is like 37% black. part of it is to have a lot of the jury pool black and make sure the selection process from the jury pool is broader. and to put pressure on the prosecutor to make sure they use their process when they go to voir dire the potential jurors, to make sure you have a balanced jury. but i think had we not got the verdict on dylann roof it would have set a tone that would have really been devastating. i have to go back to what you said during the beginning, the reaction from the community, i think, was so exemplary. you saw family members go to his arraignment and forgive him. >> i mean it's -- >> and this was the spirit throughout the funerals, i mean, many of us, were outraged. i spoke at a couple funerals of the nine. this was the most devastating
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act of racism in our lifetime, many of us. nine people in a church doing bible class, if he had walked out of there, i don't know how any of us would have had confidence in the system again. that's why you have to pursue it in the walter scott and eric garner and other cases. >> in addition to pursuing all that you've been talking about here this morning, is you have this horrendous, horrific crime that takes place, and you're right, it's so shocking it's almost indescribable, shooting people as they pray, in their house of worship, what about taking dylann roof and studying his life, i mean, you know, sitting down with him, try to sit down with him, sociologist, the media, whatever, and trying to find out why he was so filled with hatred. did it begin when he was 3, 13, 15? >> i think that is appropriate. i think that is needed. because we're talking about in
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the 21st century, where did this hate come from and why did he target the black church? why did he think that would start a race war. i also think listening to the earlier segment, i want to see the president-elect address this. when i was on shows last he called me after the show. i was a little surprised i didn't see him tweet about the dylann roof verdict. i'm surprised he hasn't addressed the verdict. he's going to inherit this divided america and i hope he sets the tone on where we're going, given this kind of historic case that's happened right before. >> reverend al sharpton. >> you're familiar, obviously, with the bible verse and charleston actually showed this more in the story of joseph, what you intend as evil, god has used for good. that -- if there is something that goes over these extraordinary survivors down in charleston, that's it. >> i think that's the right bible verse. i also think that the verse that
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says, do not grow weary in well doing because you will sow what you reap if you do not in any way hinder or -- according to your interpretation -- don't in any way faint in your obligation. >> we continue to keep fighting. >> in the next block mika will be saying the in the original greek. >> thank you, reverend al. >> she says it during the break too. >> coming up, donald trump jumps into foreign policy during his rally in pennsylvania. we will be playing that sound straight ahead. >> plus "the washington post" eugene robinson and casey hunt join the conversation. we will be right back. i love you so much.
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did you see this at the tech summit yesterday, donald trump shared an odd handshake. can we zoom in on the handshake? i guess two trump hands can't cover one normal sized hand. can we see that photo again? yeah. look at mike pence. you know it's bad when evmike pence is like, people. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it is friday, thank goodness, december 16th. still with us on set, donnie.
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>> hey, donnie. >> hi, donnie. >> managing editor of bloomberg politics, john heilemann, joining the conversation msnbc political correspondent casey hunt and in washington pulitzer prize wing columnist and associate editor and political analyst eugene robinson. good to have you all on board. >> all right. >> the fallout continues from the revelation of top -- from top intelligent sources that the russian president had a hand in trying to tilt the elections in donald trump's favor. yesterday the white house suggested that vladimir putin was involved and president obama went further saying that the u.s. will respond. >> i think there is no doubt that when any foreign government tries to impact the integrity of our elections, that we need to take action and we will at a time and place of our own choosing. some of it may be explicit and
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publicized, some of it may not be. but mr. putin is well aware of my feelings about this because i spoke to him directly about it. >> it's just a fact, you all have it on tape, that the republican nominee for president was encouraging russia to hack his opponent because he believed that would help his campaign. i recognize the defense from the trump campaign is that he was joking. i don't think anybody at the white house thinks it's funny that an adversary of the united states engaged in malicious cyber activity to destabilize our democracy. nobody at the white house thought it was a joke. >> i had a great conversation with president obama. and i said to him -- no, no, no.
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although this foolish guy josh earnest i don't know if he's talking to president obama, you know, having the right press secretary is so important because he is so bad the way he delivers a message. he can deliver a positive message and it sounds bad. he could say, ladies and gentlemen, today we have totally defeated isis and it wouldn't sound good. okay. all right. i have a feeling they won't be saying it but i know we will be saying it. but, the president is very positive, but he's not positive and i mean, maybe he's getting his orders from somebody else, does that make sense, could that be possible? >> oh, my gosh. >> oh, my gosh. >> by the way, trump is up and tweeting this morning. >> oh, good. yes. >> are we talking about the same cyber attacks where it was revealed the head of the dnc
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illegally gave hillary the questions to the debate? >> all right. so john heilemann, let's break this down. it's fascinating you have a president-elect who refuses to let his crowd boo, sitting president of the united states -- >> because he likes him now. >> but then goes after the press secretary. what's going on here between the obama administration and the incoming president and does this impact the transition? >> well, look, i mean i think again in the interest of always trying to maintain the same standards that we apply to presidents of all parties, i just -- punching down is not -- and josh earnest is a nice man but to see the president-elect punching down at the outgoing press secretary it's cheap and increases people's sense that trump is a bully and i don't think it does trump any good doing that. he's on good terms, everything i understand right now, on surprisingly good terms with president obama. may have overstated it for
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political effect because he sees there's an advantage right now with a very popular president. but they're working well together to try to manage this transition that could have been a really difficult -- it is a difficult transition for everybody involved in some ways on the white house side because they're giving up power to du donald trump this doesn't help that process or gain him anything in terms of his standing with the american public, i don't think. >> what i don't understand is why donald trump is pushing back so hard on the facts of this russian case, when we all know, my dog knows, my little cat oliver meatball scarborough knows -- >> meatball. >> there is going to be a two-year investigation that mitch mcconnell and paul ryan and chuck schumer and nancy pelosi are all going to agree on, and we are going to be investigating this for two years. again, going back to the bible
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verse, all the words are going to be shouted from the mountaintop. why does donald trump keep pushing back on something that is coming straight at us? >> i have no earthly idea. if he -- look, you would think he would -- if not want to get out if front of this, then at least try to keep up. but he's not keeping up. it is -- he must understand at this point, i think they probably sat him down and got him to listen long enough to understand, that when the intelligence community says they have high confidence that this was russia, that russia hacked our election, and was involved in this way, you know, that means it happened. and so yes, there's going to be an investigation and this is completely unacceptable for any sovereign nation, let alone the united states, to say, okay, cool, the russians interfered with our elections. that's not acceptable. he has to get on the other side
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of this and he ought to do it quickly. >> i'll tell you why he's doing it, very simple, to our discussions he's not changing to donald trump in some way it triflie iztriv vallizes his wine would have won with or without this, but his driving modus op per ren does, still, hopefully this will change, is not what's best for the country, it's how in any way, shape, or form is my armor chinked. and that's what drives him. to him somehow in his mind this diminishes his win. >> make that argument then. it didn't impact the election. >> it didn't. >> there was russian hacking and, of course, casey, you can argue, well, the fbi and the cia disagree. there are parts of people in the cia who disagree. false reports that the rnc was hacked also, which "the wall street journal" said is false. last night. there are a thousand different arguments you can make. but the one thing is, go ahead and give up what you have to
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give up. >> right. >> but don't fight against a fact that is you know is going to -- give it up. of course. of course they hacked. of course they hacked but they didn't impact the election. >> republicans are -- if you listen to the way that john mccain and lindsey graham are talking about this, they want to put pressure on trump on russia, but they are saying, we 100% know we were hacked and it's the russians and don't believe it had any outcome on the auto he election so let's investigate it. one thing that popped up this morning, john podesta wrote an op-ed essentially pitting the cia against the fbi and saying there's something wrong at the fbi, why did they go after her e-mails as though it was a huge national security dcrisis when there was a national security crisis going on over there. there is a little bit of risk if democrats continue to really publicly try to re-litigate this because you will end up with more retrenchment from donald
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trump and less investigation. >> we need to have a real investigation. >> we do. >> this is a thing of mop new mental concern. -- monumental concern. how attacks will happen in the first. not relitigating the past. what did russia do and how did they do it. it's the right thing to do on every level. interestingly i thought yesterday, was the tweet, where he said if russia did this why did the obama administration wait so long to do it after hillary lost. that's not true. we know that obama administration put out the intelligence finding back in october saying this was true. but there was a pivot there because previously trump was saying, was not even allowing for the possibility that russia had been involved in hacking and a lot of democrats looked at that with tweet and in adigtsdi to condemning the falsehood he's allowings the possibility that russia was involved. he may be slowly now drifting towards accepting the notion that there's going to be this investigation and doing what you
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just suggested. >> go ahead and getting it out. mika, the republicans have to investigate this aggressively. what happens four years from now if we don't do enough, don't find out what happens, so we can protect against future safeguards and north koreas hacks the rnc. >> right. >> yeah. >> it's going to happen. >> it was already attacked it. >> can i ask a quick question here, this goes to our earlier discussion about campaigning versus being president. should we not be gravely concerned, gravely concerned. >> let me answer you now, but go ahead. >> that our future president is not acknowledging, more concerned with his own reputation or his own insecurity, than the safeguarding of our country. this is a fundamental, frightening concept, instead of oh, he just won't accept it. does that frighten you at all? this has nothing to do with nazis and the republic. just that basic little -- >> your tone and your approach
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to this issue, i think, again, plays into what donald trump wants. he wants people to run around with their hair on fire. >> hair is not on fire. >> well you said are you gravely concerned. i'm not gravely concerned because i find that he changes what he says from one day to the next, and -- and -- so if you ask, am i concerned? yes, i am concerned. does the constitution rest on a razor's edge because of this? no, it does not. what i'm still trying to figure out, gene, is this, how does this all shake out in the end when you do have the constitutional checks and balances, when you have paul ryan and mitch mcconnell, two guys that did not support this guy, for most of the campaign, certainly when they did, they did it reluctantly, when you have nancy pelosi and chuck schumer, minority leader, one of the most powerful people in washington, the supreme court, all of these checks and balances, how does this shake out? i don't know how it shakes out.
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i don't think anybody does right now. >> no. i mean nobody knows. just to donnie's point, my hair can't be on fire. i don't have much hair. look, i think there has to be a change in the president-elect's mindset. there does have to be that change from, you know, what's good for donald trump to what's good for the country and sometimes those will be in conflict and he's going to have to choose the country. and if he doesn't, then yeah, we're going to be in big trouble and we're just going to have to see how he makes that change. the other point i would make, is that the question he asks in that earlier tweet that john heilemann was talking about, i didn't see so much a change in attitude there as i saw a question that's going to be asked in the investigation. i agree. >> that question will be asked. should there have been a quicker retaliation by the president. he was in a difficult position
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politically. he couldn't be seen as trying to tip the scales in favor of hillary clinton. in any public way, but that's -- that's a question. >> yeah. >> okay. that's a whole different argument. >> but we also -- >> i know. we have to get going. >> just one last thing. >> five seconds. >> the other important thing last night obama saying there would be some kind of reprisal against russia and that was news last night and there could be action taken between now and when barack obama leaves office against russia over this. that was the news of last night. >> and didn't want to start a cyber war. >> reports this morning that evacuations in aleppo have. halted with reports of fresh gunfire there. thousands of people began fleeing the city yesterday by government busses and ambulances. there are some estimates it could take several days to evacuate. in a video released by his office, president assad said, quote, liberation of aleppo was as historic moment and compared it with the birth of christ.
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and the revelation of the prophet mohammad. and last night the president-elect -- >> this coming from a war criminal that has committed genocide. >> last night, president-elect donald trump talked about how he would address the crisis. >> i will suspend immigration and refugee admissions from regions where they cannot be safely processed or vetted. and we'll build safe zones in syria. when i look at what's going on in syria, it's so sad. it's so sad. and we've got to help people. and we have the gulf states. they have nothing but money. we don't have money. we owe $20 trillion. i will get the gulf states to give us lots of money and we'll build and help build safe zones in syria so people can have a chance. so they can have a chance. >> i just feel like that was the news out of last night.
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>> that is with actually -- that is the big news out of last night. john heilemann you were asking what does his future policy look like, that is -- and sometimes when we get distracted by the bright shiny objects we miss that. if that is, in fact, his new policy on syria, probably pushed by mattis and conversations with the president-elect, that is a significant change and it suggests a regional alliance to bring some sort of relief to refugees across the globe. >> and hugely important thing, if that is the direction he's headed and significant in a broader way we were discussing off camera the question of it's very easy for american presidents and american politicians to adopt isolationist rhetoric in campaigns but you become president of the united states and suddenly you're mugged by the reality of being the world's most important super power and this may be the beginning of trump having to adjust to the responsibilities of the office
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in the global sense. >> he said that out loud since becoming president-elect. this ends as a bigger job than i thought it was and grappling with questions like this and i think almost -- it's a very small amount of people that have held that office and they say similar things. it raises questions, he wants to get money from the gulf states. one of the questions, who is going to make sure these zones are safe. whose boots are on the ground. there's questions associated with that. i'm interested to know who is listening closely on these issues, mattis or someone else. >> gene robinson, it is a significant change in the past he suggested that russia just take control of syria so we don't have to bother with it. but if you look at the regions that are right now being liberated from isis, those aren't regions that the united states or turkey or most of the world is going to want to turn over, to assad, especially after
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what he's done over the past five years. >> no. and that's the central question. i agree that was -- that's huge news if they're going to be -- the u.s. administered or created safe zones in syria, how is that going to work. one presumes that this evolves, number one, some sort of accord or agreement or working together with russia, and that -- that, to me, presumes an acceptance of assad. assad's continuance as president of what's left of his part of syria at the very least because i don't think you get russia's cooperation without acquiescing to the fact that assad will stick around. that's a big change in u.s. policy. and then safe zones have to be created with military power, they have to be maintained with military power. it's a very, very big deal and a very, very big change.
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>> all right. while ruckus crowds -- i actually think that's how he's going to communicate policy, i really do. i think he's going to -- i don't think these rallies end when he becomes president. and that's what made my ears perk up yesterday. i'm not surprised that he actually got serious on syria. >> and his understanding, people look at those rallies and they're distracted by a lot of different things going on because this is not the way presidents act, and yet, if you do dig through it sometimes you can find the news in there. >> so while ruckus crowds greeted the president-elect last night a new cbs poll shows americans remain deeply divided about what kind of president donald trump will be. 34% of americans think trump will be a good or very good president. nearly the same amount, 36%, think he will be a poor president. trump spent most of his nearly hour-long speech talking about
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his election win, the media and his endorsements. >> we won in a landslide. this was a landslide victory. >> it was an amazing evening and the people on espn, sports people, they said, it was the singular greatest event they've ever seen. they've seen football, and baseball, and boxing, and they said it was the greatest. we are just doing great in pennsylvania. in fact, i won it twice, right. i won it twice. because i won it and then we had this scam operation, let's ask for a recount, and we won it again and we won wisconsin and we won michigan. no, i love it. i hope somebody asks for a recount because i love winning. we're winning three and four and five times. i love pennsylvania but we didn't even need you guys. isn't that terrible? because they waited so dam long. they took all of your glory
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away. right? there's something different about a crowd before the election, like when i was here a few weeks ago, and after the election. before the election they are brutal. they are so crazed. you're like crazed people and that's good. i like that. and now -- no. and now you're laid back. hey. hey. on ward, mr. trump, on ward. >> so let me explain what happens around this table and what's happened around this table for a year and a half. for the same time people have been shocked and stunned and deeply saddened by donald trump and believe he's a nazi, every time we roll tape and people see it the first time, everybody is laughing. now maybe they're laughing in disgust or laughing in horror or laughing at oh, my god, i can't see this, but donnie deutsch, if you are a politician that has been elected this way, and you
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are entertaining these crowds, your supporters, while we all think in polite society he should change this up, why should he? this is actually -- like and he says the most random things about espn, we can win it three or four or five times. we don't need you guys. we don't need pennsylvania. crowd after election. hey, babe owybaby. no, it is not lincoln-esque but in 2016, it actually is working for this guy. so why would he -- >> that part he should not change. actually he is a bril ynts politician, a brilliant communicator. we know that. what he does, and it is just -- there is a -- i've always said part of him is in on the joke. all along. he's kind of almost in his own way, winking at the whole thing. when he says things like, we won twice here. i didn't even need you guys.
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i mean -- >> won in a landslide. >> you know it's when he starts to lie and make stuff up, that that's where it becomes a problem. but other than that, that makes him engaging, that makes him real, and as you said earlier, it is a way for people to receive message. so i have no problem, and i salute him, and i salute that brilliance, that allows him to communicate -- >> let me say something -- >> as if you're sitting next to a guy at a bar. i think he set the mark for all communication going forward. >> let me say something about the trump supporter that was always described as not educated or illiterate or whatever, deplorable, the trump supporter said, oh, i get what he's saying, i can finish his sentences, the muslim ban, he doesn't mean it, and if you think about it, they were right. >> unfortunately a lot of people do believe -- >> they believe he does. ask him now about the muslim ban, it has changed. and the trump supporter every step of the way says he doesn't mean it. you don't understand. he just says those things. but we know what he really
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means. i'm just saying -- >> i hear you. >> they knew more than we got. >> it's been writ than voters trump seriously but not literally. opponents took him literally. >> and we mocked them and look at where we are now and every policy that he put out that was so fearful and which one -- >> i think what he does, he sets us up, the straight men and his fools, when, again, sorry about the hair thing, when donnie and i are pulling out our hair and acting shocked and stunned and deeply saddened and it's almost like we're -- we're playing his straight men -- i'm talking about the entire media, and we come across as scolds and people are like sitting in their chairs going just relax, guys. >> look, he's got this act down, right. he knows how to do this and he does it, you know, for his purposes brilliantly. he needs to do two things, and i think quickly. number one, go to a crowd that's
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not your crowd and go some place else. go to a crowd that didn't vote for you and charm them. if you can be so charming. >> like the meeting he had this week, he's done that. >> well, okay. technically. but do it at a rally. >> democrats coming in to see him. >> and bring those people along, convince them that you're not going to do all the terrible things you said you were going to do. that's number one. number two, get somebody to explain to like kim jong-un and a few other world leaders that he doesn't really mean what he's saying because this is serious business when you talk like that and world leaders are listening and they would tend to think you're serious. >> i would just register my modest dissent. >> please do. >> just this one thing. like, presidential candidates should be taken literally. you're running for president and make a proposal and you make a
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racist, unconstitutional proposal to ban all muslims from the united states, at this table, you guys got upset about that. >> we were very upset. >> for a reason. >> i was very upset. >> i understand. >> but let's not engage in history where we say we shouldn't have taken him so seriously. >> i'm telling you that the trump supporter knew more than we did. >> i said i couldn't vote for him because of the muslim ban. >> now, though, there's this tendency, i'm not saying this -- this is becoming a now famous thing. well, you know, the trump voters took him seriously but not literally. we have an obligation to take candidates literally. when they make a proposal we take it literal. i'm not going to feel guilty having taken him seriously. this has become a meme in our world. if you understood that we should have taken him fig ra ittively than literally. >> i'm saying it's an explanation. >> i'm not attacking you. >> you're making it about you, john. >> i'm really not, mika. i'm not. >> everybody making it about
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themselves when they get upset. >> i'm saying something simple, which is the lesson from this campaign cannot be that we were wrong to take him literally when he made proposals. >> no. the lesson -- please let me talk because i'm the one that brought this up. the lesson from the campaign are many, but i'm talking about the people who hillary clinton called deplorables, the people who were trump supporters from the very beginning, i'm just saying, there wasn't an accurate -- there wasn't an accurate assessment. >> understanding. >> of where they were not only in life and in this country. >> sure. >> and how they connected with this candidate. >> plenty of trump supporters who heard that proposal and liked it. there were plenty of people who took him perfectly seriously and thought it was appealing he wanted to build a wall, mexicans were rapist and trying to ban muslims. many trump surpers who loved the sound of those policies. >> i don't want to be -- >> not all, some, many. >> i don't want to be harold ford jr. here, though i love him.
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>> you have three points. >> no, i agree with both of you. you all are saying -- >> it's interesting. >> things that could be harmonized together. you're right. our possibility, i believe, around this table is when he proposes a muslim ban, and a muslim registry, is to do what we did in december and say -- >> i'm not defending that. >> i can't vote for somebody that would do that and this reminds me of germany in 1933 and you're right. >> that's your words. >> judge curel, we spoke out and we should have. so yes, we should do what we should do. there are some people that are trying to figure out exactly what happened in the middle america. i can tell you, i can speak for my brother, i would say, what do you think about fill in the blank and george would say, he's not going to do that. >> what. >> i've heard that voter after voter. what about the judge, the mexican. come on, joe. listen, yes, i remember nicole
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wallace said her parents would be very frustrated by the things he said. i talked to trump surpe esupporo would say i wish he wouldn't do all that other nonsense. what you guys are saying is consistent, we have that responsibility. i just want to let you know right now, john heilemann, i think you're special. >> nobody around here -- >> joe loves me. >> there's no lack of love at this table. >> nobody is judging you at all. i want to ask -- >> casey was. >> casey can be -- >> casey was attacking me. ♪ we are all the world >> you should see her, she's -- yeah. back stabber. yep. >> can we sing -- >> yeah. >> sweet -- >> we'll be right back. >> we'll be right back. world ugly and messy. they are the natural born enemy of the way things are.
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yes, ideas are scary, and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful. you recommend synthetic and can yover cedar? me why "super food"? is that a real thing? it's a great school, but is it the right the one for her? is this really any better than the one you got last year? if we consolidate suppliers what's the savings there? so should we go with the 467 horsepower? or is a 423 enough? good question. you ask a lot of good questions... i think we should move you into our new fund. ok. sure. but are you asking enough about how your wealth is managed? wealth management, at charles schwab.
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same nose. same toughness. and since he's had moderate alzheimer's disease, the same never quit attitude. that's why i asked his doctor about once-a-day namzaric. (avo) namzaric is approved for moderate to severe alzheimer's disease in patients who are taking donepezil. it may improve cognition and overall function, and may slow the worsening of symptoms for a while. namzaric does not change the underlying disease progression. don't take if allergic to memantine, donepezil, piperidine or any of the ingredients in namzaric. tell the doctor about any conditions including heart, lung, bladder, kidney or liver problems, seizures, stomach ulcers, or procedures with anesthesia. serious side effects may occur, including muscle problems if given anesthesia; slow heartbeat, fainting, more stomach acid which may lead to ulcers and bleeding; nausea, vomiting, difficulty urinating, seizures, and worsening of lung problems. most common side effects are headache, diarrhea, dizziness loss of appetite, and bruising. (man) dad and i shared a lot of moments. now we're making the most of each one.
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when the president of the united states says something to the world, that's a big deal.
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and then not fulfill the commitment that he made, your allies lose confidence and trust in your leadership and your word, your adversaries are watching us very clearly, i'll leave it to history to decide whether the president's position on this and what he ultimately decides is the right thing or not. we have to recognize we can't fix it, nato can't fix it, it has to come from the middle east and the leaders there. >> you could actually form a basketball team of former obama secretary of defenses that have said nasty things about him. >> oh, that's not -- >> a basketball team. >> seriously. >> who runs point? >> gates. >> but gates, he sees the court. he's got great vision. but look at this, he's looking at you, boom, right over there. i think panetta kind of power forward. >> yeah. >> barkley gets a lot of rebounds, 6'6" but plays above
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his size. >> true. >> that was former secretary of defense chuck hagel yesterday. >> ironicay his nickname in congress, the round mound of rebound. >> talking about the syrian civil war and its impact on president obama's legacy. joining us nbc news pentagon correspondent hans nickel. >> he's something very slippery about this guy. >> everybody was talking bad about this guy at the white house, said they were out to get him. >> i don't want to say more. there were multiple conspiracies taking place in multiple wings of the white house. >> more hans. welcome to "morning joe." >> my intellect against your forward. i like these odds. >> how long did you practice that in front of a mirror? >> about 26 times. >> it's good. how was the delivery? i felt i flubbed it a little. >> welcome to "morning joe." >> thank you. >> you're my ally. >> i am an ally. >> oh, my god, really. >> killing him. >> is this your first time? >> that's awesome. >> undermine him from the start. >> maybe i'll flub it.
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we'll see. >> hans, tell me -- >> that's all i do is flub it. you still come back. it's amazing. >> what's the attitude over at the pentagon about general mattis coming in? is there concern about a general coming in or beloved guy? >> great deal of excitement. >> really. >> not just in the marine corps. talk to any of the services in the pentagon they're excited about mattis. it's going to be a 180 degree change. described by a general the other day before the mission it's always been about force levels, how many troops are you going to have here throughout the entire obama administration we spent time talking about 6,000 be 8,000. >> right. >> it will change. what's the strategy, what's the goal, what's the objective and work back from that and they're excited about that. >> you'll have alignment between the pentagon and the white house. >> maybe. maybe. >> right. mattis will -- if mattis feels the president will go in a different direct, he will defend the pentagon, marine corps and institution. i wouldn't say total alignment. >> ash carter, i've heard nothing but really good things
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about him -- >> you need better sources. >> i need better sources. >> are you saying ash carter is not beloved inside the pentagon? >> i don't know if i would go that far but you don't hear the same kind of anticipation and excitement that you have for mattis and you don't have the same sort of throughout the service branch -- ash carter has taken the pentagon in a different direction. i don't want to be too negative. tech direction -- >> sounding negative. >> taken it -- >> doesn't it need to go into the tech direction. >> computers from 1987. i mean there's a picture of matthew broderick on the side. >> here is an early criticism i heard from someone in the obama administration about mattis. that is that -- he's good. >> ferris bueller in my ear. it's a war games reference. you lose. >> he has visited more tech campuses than u.s. military bases. and that's -- i don't know -- this was six months ago. i don't know if that's true. he's been around the world. he's been too tech focused and those are important issues to
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discuss and advance -- >> doesn't seem like -- >> it's a hard job. hard job to be popular uniformly. >> yeah. >> just like joe. critics everywhere. >> he's serious. this guy. >> actually negative. >> it's perfect. >> like we should probably do something to take him out. >> well -- >> snipers. >> bullies. >> i'm telling you at the christmas party i hear that everybody -- this guys picture goes with the saying in washington just because you're paranoid doesn't mean not everybody is out to get you. >> you spent too much time in europe. the european -- >> the european and in berlin you have to lower your testosterone level and be friends with everyone. you go to a park suck in your chest. your vibe in berlin i'm going to be friends with you. >> hans, they love you in berlin. >> that's my wine handler. sees me coming. >> i think we will have to have hans here all the time. mika has required me to ask you an intelligent question. hard for me to do but i will
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try. is there any concern about a general that was -- what is it three years ago. >> yeah. >> is there any concern at all over at the pentagon about this waiver? >> no. the only question you have inside the pentagon, and i shouldn't say an affirmative no like that, there may be in pockets, i haven't reported that, you hear concern to what extent having a marine general will -- because it's so -- it will be marine heavy and whether or not there's anything marine heavy but no. they have a question of whether or not the waiver will get passed and we don't know the answer if that will get through the senate. we didn't do aleppo. >> i know. wait. okay. >> we'll talk about aleppo. >> no. please do. >> at the state department you hear a lot about aleppo. the pentagon shunt aleppo to state. the big concern in the pentagon is that after aleppo falls, let's be clear what we heard from john kerry yesterday, we heard last rights for aleppo. >> yeah. >> you will have potentially five armies that will be moving north. the town everyone needs to get to know is abab, five armies,
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including an army with which the u.s. has special forces embedded. they will be converging. no one knows where the russians will go, with al bab or back with the regime to take back palmyra. to great celebration they took and isis took it back and isis has gotten potentially surface-to-air missiles. that's a huge concern of the pentagon. wondering if russia will take out those or they will have to go out and take them out. these are discussions at the pentagon. >> nbc's hans nicoles. >> you tell him. >> i'm glad -- when alex says wrap he means stop. >> he doesn't. >> now alex said to you too. >> hans, thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. >> by the way, from 9:00 to 11:00, hans is going to be selling heineken on 57th and 6th. seriously, the best price on heineken. >> i feel like our viewers want me to hit you today. >> it would be -- it's a german
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beer, becks. >> popping with the time. >> okay. >> still ahead. >> you don't like the dutch? what's wrong with you. i like hans. hold on. hans, can you come back? >> if you'll have me, i will come back. if you're nicer. >> no. >> we're not nicer. but we would like you back anyway. >> well thaunnks. >> he's big in berlin. >> statute and -- >> west berlin. >> still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> sort of sense that's grown up in a democratic party that somehow these folks are -- i mean these are good people, man. these aren't racists. these aren't sexists. there's a sense in some of our party, wait a minute, we either have to be tone down our progressive point of view and ramp up what we're going to do for working folks or talk less about working folks and ramp up -- there is no conflict in the neighborhoods i come from. none. none at all.
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>> vice president joe biden's message kicks off our discussion on where democrats go from here. how his party is pinned somewhere between changing the -- the changing base of obama voters and a white working class that drifted to donald trump. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ you got it! what do you think? if you're going to wish, wish big at the lexus december to remember sales event get up to $2500 customer cash on select 2016 and 2017 models for these terms. see your lexus dealer. ( ♪ ) ♪ you gotta to be cool, calm, collected ♪ ♪ look your fear in the eye
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>> still ahead, we dig into new numbers showing what americans expect from donald trump. plus, what democrats feed to do to win back -- need to do to win back working-class voters. we're back in a moment. ♪ ♪ i want a hippopotamus for christmas ♪ ♪ only a hippopotamus will do
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male vo: no one deserves a warmer welcome home. that's why we're hiring 10,000 members of the military community by the end of 2017. i'm very proud of him. male vo: comcast. you know, it's hard to get a big crowd after an election. if somebody else, a normal person, came after an election even after a victory, you would have 15 people. people would say, we had enough. we're not going. and this place is packed. >> joining us now, republican pollster and columnist for the washington examiner, kristen soltis-anderson. her book, the selfie vote, where millennials are leading america. also, executive vice president of public affairs at psb research and co-host of the top
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rated podcast, the pollsters, margie omero. good to have you both onboard. we have been talking about trump voters, kristen. we're also looking at this new cbs poll in terms of what kind of president donald trump will be. i'm curious if this poll was taken before obama. are these same questions asked every time around? >> it usually is. these numbers are lower than most -- >> the low bar. >> but when you're looking at this, kristen, you see that 34% say he's going to be good or very good president. 36% say he's going to be poor, and 23% say he's going to be average. yawn heilman, i think, has an aardvark in his throat. >> looking at those numbers. don't they track his approval rating, basically? the good and very good numbers, if you add them together. >> kristen will tell us more and so will margie. >> a third, a third, a third. a third think he's going to be
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good, bad, average. what do you take from that? >> in a lot of these questions, things break down along completely partisan lines. if you look at cross tabs and how republicans feel, most republicans think he's going to be a pretty good president if not a great president. democrats think he's going to be a disaster, and independents split down the middle. a lot of these questions are so divided bases on partisan identification alone. it's kind of a shame because if you think back eight years ago for barack obama, there were even a lot of republicans who felt like he was going to do a pretty good job. the numbers that we have seen for past presidents, whether it's obama, george h.w. bush, when you ask questions about do you approve of the job they're doing? are you excited about their presidency, have tended to be higher, but this was a very negative election. there's going to be a huge chunk of the country that was not excited about the results. even though the results are not great for trump, they're not necessarily worse than i expected. and they're along partisan
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lines. >> she said the first thing i thought when i looked at the poll, which is it would have been the same for hillary clinton. it would have been a third, a third, a third. >> that's why i'm in charge of asking the stupid question of the day, margie. >> i thought that was my job. >> definitely mike's job. >> i said every day. we have donny here. >> why are you incringing on my territory? >> here's the question. what possible utility is there in those poll numbers for the average person? what does that tell us that we didn't know just walking around? >> well, it gives us a base line. also, it gives us a measuring stick to compare trump versus other incoming presidents. gallup, mcclatchy, others have done comparable questions and can compare trump's current numbers to previous president-elects and they're far lower. also gives us a benchmark to see can he exceed expectations going
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forward and does that propel him to a honeymoon, a delayed money moon, or will they always be this fraught and this divided. good donny deutsch, could you ask a stupid question. >> ask a dumber question. >> can you dumb this? yes. >> wow. >> what is the capital of north dakota. >> go ahead. >> i guess the question, guys, are we post-nate silver? are we polled out? >> totally. >> is it a point that at this point -- >> kristen, where does this go? >> we're kind of polls -- >> they have been wrong. >> not only wrong. they're superfluous and at the point -- >> you can get anything you want. >> so kristen, okay, guys, stop. we're running out of time. kristen, quickly, this is a really good question. where do pollsters go in this post-polling apocalypse where everybody seems to be wrong? >> i think we have to get past the obsession with the horse race numbers. that's what everybody focuses on
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constantly, and the most interesting stuff that happens in a poll is the stuff beneath the surface. we did an interview with trump's pollster. in our polls, a lot of people said they were undecided but the questions underneath, what type of change do you want, where do you stand on the issues that told us the undecided folks were going to tip trump in the end. that's the most interesting and there's a ton of value on polling where people stand on issues, their attitudes about the fuching. we have to get past the horse race. >> kristen soltis-anderson, margie omero, thank you so much. >> a good question, donny. >> coming up in the next hour, arianna huffington joins us in the studio. >> i love you, donny. >> i'm feeling love. >> is everybody feeling love? >> for him? >> no. >> plus, yahoo! shares -- >> i think you can love complete. >> i need a hug. i was looking at you. >> i'll hug you.
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>> this is just weird. >> you can love completely those you don't completely understand. >> yahoo! shares tank on fears verizon may scrap plans to buy the internet giant. "morning joe" is back in a moment. if you have a typical airline credit card, you only earn double miles when you buy stuff from that airline. wait...is this where you typically shop? you should be getting double miles on every purchase! switch...to the capital one venture card. with venture, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, everywhere, every day. not just ...(dismissively) airline purchases. seriously... double miles... everywhere. what's in your wallet?
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believe it? can you believe this? just call me donald, folks. my message tonight is for all americans, from all parties, all beliefs, all walks of life. whether you are african-american, hispanic-american, or asian-american or whatever the hell you are. remember that we are all americans. >> good morning, everyone. it's friday. december 16th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set -- >> donny, just call me donald. >> yeah. >> just call me donald. >> or donny baby or anything. but i love the whatever the hell you are. >> yeah. >> but i do -- he did not mention the tribe, and mike, you're grinning at that. >> why should he? he's appointing an ambassador that is moving everything to jerusalem. >> as you can see, donny deutsch is here. veteran columnist and msnbc
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contributor mike barnicle is here. >> legendary. >> he's legendary. >> managing editor of bloomberg politics john heilemann is here. i didn't even see you. well, hello. nice to have you on. >> so donny, you're the ad man. this is breaking all the rules. the guy has won. all right. you're supposed to be going down and fishing off florida keys or whatever. or you know, some harry truman shirt on right now, and he's running around, and he's working still. he's like, he's campaigning still. first of all, good idea, bad idea? secondly, can you think of a product, like, let's take this, because in the end, politics is marketing. that has just broken as many rules in their field as donald trump every day? breaks a different rule. >> you talk about, part of his brand is breaking rules, being a disresulter. the one thing i want to hit on is what you said, he's still
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campaigning. that's got to shift a little bit. there's still, whether it is his, you know, non-acknowledgment of the russian hacking or fighting with graydon carter about restaurant reviews or it is -- he's somehow got to make -- >> let me ask you this. you said there's people like it. he's a disrupter. they like seeing him picking these fights. they obviously do. they all rally behind him. i wouldn't do it. i don't think it's a great idea to do it, but i'm talking about -- his people love it. >> you said his people. i don't know if the consensus in the country right now, whether it is democrats, and obviously there's been a lot of polls and yes, his approval rating is higher but it's still lower than any president 30 or 40 days into after being elected. he's got to at some point own that he's won instead of proving that he's won. and i would like my president at this point to be saying more
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than anything, because i think the biggest story of the election is not him winning, it's the russian hacking. wow, this is really concerning. that's what i would like the leader of our country to be saying at this point. for some reason, he's still in campaign mode saying no, nothing to do with it. >> let's get to news. >> i saw him talking about foreign policy. i think everyone who says he needs to do this, needs to do that, needs to calm down. i think he's communicating what policy perhaps at some point might be coming. >> he's not the president yet. he's free to do some stuff like this. >> talking about syria. >> got space to play in the outside game. i don't think it's that big a problem. when he becomes president of the united states, he can shift fully to being president of the united states. for now, he has space to go out and have fun. >> but think about this. he's a 70-year-old fully formed adult. this is who he is. >> right. >> he's not going to change. this is who he is. >> this will take, it will morph
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into what kind of president he is. >> no, that's the point. there's no morphing. it's happened. >> i think this is probably how he's going to be when he's president. >> yes. >> and communicating policy might happen this way. while raucous crowds greeting the president-elect last night, a new cbs poll shows americans remain deeply divided about what kind of president donald trump will be. 34% of americans think trump will be a good or very good president. nearly the same amount, 36%, think he will be a poor president. trump spent most of his nearly hour-long speech on his election win, the media, and endorsements. >> we won in a landslide. an amazing evening. and the people on espn, sports people, they said it was the single greatest event they have ever seen. they have seen football and baseball and boxing. and they said it was the greatest.
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we are just doing great in pennsylvania. in fact, i won it twice, right? i won it twice. because i won it. and then we had this scam operation, let's ask for a recount. we won it again. we won wisconsin. we won michigan. i love it. i hope somebody asks for a recount because i love winning. we're winning three, four, five times. i love pennsylvania, but we didn't even need you guys. isn't that terrible? because they waited so damn long. they took all of your glory away, right? there's something different about a crowd before the election, like when i was here a few weeks ago, and after the election. before the election, they are brutal. they are so crazed. you're like, crazed people, and that's good. i like that. and now, no, and now you're laid back. hey, babe. hey.
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onward, mr. trump. onward. >> opening at the tiki lounge on route 22 in new jersey. comedy stylings of donald trump. >> yeah. >> i changed my mind. >> you changed your mind. >> maybe he shouldn't be doing that. >> the thing is you look at the poll numbers. and the poll numbers seem to be split about the same. think he'll be a good president, a bad president. in the middle, a lot of people think he'll be an average president. i just wonder whether -- i don't know. again, we're in unchartered territory. that's the understatement. >> let's start with the poll and ask the question, or at least i'll ask the question, why would you take a poll like that at this stage? come on. what kind of president do you think donald trump is going to be? why don't we cover the organization of his cabinet and the impact, the potential impact that the nominees might have on policy? >> i think that number probably goes in there. i mean, you can look at rex
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tillerson. you look at -- certainly conservatives have been very pleased by the selections. >> they are. >> progressives have been very disappointed by it. foreign policy people are split. >> you have not been disappointed? >> flynn i have an issue with, bannon, i have an issue with. i like that he's putting business guys in there. i think the tillerson choice is smart, spent the last 30, 40 years making global richs. there's a putin question, but you know where i come down on trump, but mostly, i like that they're not cronies and i like they're outsiders and i like that like him or not, he stayed true to what he said he was going to do. >> john heilemann, what's been official washington's view of the people he's selected so far? >> i think everybody has fallen in line. this goes to the central political question, right? he has appointed a guy who ran as an outsider, a populist, has picked not a conventional group, because as donny said, there's
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business people and a different mix, but in terms of policy, relatively doctrinaire, straightforward republican, the people who would make the mitch mcconnell and paul ryan wings of the party happy. he put a bunch of people from goldman sachs in the office. to me, i think if you're in the congressional wing of the republican party, you're happy because it looks like a lot of the appointees running federal agencyerize adopting a relatively conventional, very conservative, but relatively conventional conservative agenda. if you're a populist in the country, you're rooting for trump because you voted for him, but the long-term question is, does that work politically for trump? or do people look at the swamp and say at some point, hey, you were going to drain the swamp, and the swamp is still full. you have become a very conventional republican president. >> so mike, i'm just looking at my computer. you know, why does trump keep
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surviving? because of low expectations. i'm looking at -- i have it on "the new york times" website. sunday review. their big sunday review piece "is trump a threat to democracy" past ability is no guarantee of our government's future survival. come on. i mean, seriously. i hear these, respected editors talking about people being dragged off to prison. it sets the bar so low. why don't you just attack his epa choice? i mean, the fact that we're a month after the election, and "the new york times" is seriously going to put the front of sunday review that the future of democracy is threatened is just, again, laughable. and we said this when he went down the escalator, the more you underestimate him, the more you vilify him, the more you play into his hands. we have been saying that
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nonstop. the press can't help themselves here. the fourth riek, is coming to washington, d.c., according to "the new york times," and "the washington post," and a lot of other publications and a lot of networks. >> i think a couple of things are going on there. one of them is because donald trump, his personality, his huge personality has been so familiar to so many people in this country for so many years, through "the apprentice" and over things and he's been on the scene for three decades, that large numbers of people, the elite media, whatever, they still can't get their arms around the fact he's the president-elect of the united states. >> but is he going to undermine the constitution? is he going to be able to tear to shreds james madison and alexander hamilton? >> that's the second part of the equation. i firmly believe the second part of the equation is this. that large elements of the elite media, whatever you want to call the "times" editorial page or "the washington post" editorial page. they in self-reflection, realize
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that they so miscovered large elements of this campaign, spending so much time covering the e-mails, hillary clinton's e-mails, and everything that was provoked by wikipedia. >> wikileaks. >> huh? >> wikileaks. >> wikileaks. >> right. >> that now there's a little more than a little guilt in their coverage of donald trump. >> should there be guilt actually in the coverage, donny, that they actually didn't talk to anybody outside of manhattan? >> there you go. >> i mean, we could talk about wikileaks. we can talk about hillary's e-mails. they never saw this coming. because they never looked outside of their bubble. and so now they're so angry. they're so angry that they missed it over the past year. they have got to explain why they were blind. >> joe, i think there are two different issues. >> let me read this again. past ability is no guarantee of our government's future survival. does anybody around this table
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or does anybody at "the new york times" really believe that our constitutional republic's future survival is now at risk because a reality tv show guy got elected? >> i think what people are concerned about, and it's very interesting. this is -- >> no, but i'm just asking this question. >> we do have a president from many people's perspective believe that he believes he plays outside the laws, for lack of a better word. starting with, i genuinely believe this man says to himself, my business conflicts are irrelevant. do you know hi many people have come up to me and said -- >> no, no, donny, we don't have 20 hours for you to go off topic. >> not 20 hours. >> i need you to answer my question. do you believe that the future of our government's survival, our constitutional republic, is at risk because donald trump got elected president? and do you know anybody that is intelligent, that understands the government, that believes,
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let me read this, our government's future survival is at risk in. >> our government will survive. i think there is a reckless player, the likes of which we have never seen, to the point, the amount of people who say, donny, are you personally worried because of how you have come out against trump? that mindset, that we have a guy in office, i don't think they would have said that if barack was elected or george w. bush was elected, that there's a guy sitting in that chair that seems to play in his own band versus the normal confines of that office. i think that -- >> he's bound by the constitution. >> he's hired people, talking to mitt romney, who is extremely critical. that's a false question. if they're asking you that question, are you scared that someone you have been so against -- >> no one told them to ask me that question. that's a guttural response to what they see. >> have they been watching this transition? >> what do you mean? what would he do with mitt romney?
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humiliated. >> he considered him as secretary of state. >> paraded him around like a fool. >> no, he didn't. you don't know -- it was a very serious thing. but again, john heilemann, or mike barnicle, the question is this. do you have faith in the constitution, that if donny deutsch is preyed upon by a trump administration because he spoke out against him, that we have enough checks and balances, like let's say preet, for example, or let's say the attorney general -- >> who donald keeps, preet. >> or the attorney general of new york. there are 1,000 people. are republicans like paul ryan who want to run for president in the future, that won't pick his flesh off his bones. >> i agree with you. i would only hope that someone would go after donny. >> exactly. >> let me ask you this. read that line again from the "times." >> past ability is no guarantee
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of our government's future survival. is trump a threat to democracy? >> so i obviously haven't read the whole thing. but i think if you change the phrase from the future of our constitutional democracy to are you worried about our national security going forward? i think you would get a lot of people, a lot of people who would say yes. >> but again, that's what -- that's my point, john heilemann. there's always an overreach. he's always a fascist. he's always a nazi. he's going to chain reporters up, he's going to throw them in jail, instead of saying that he's going to chill press freedoms and we're going to have to be vigilant about it. yes, he's a threat to america's national security. instead of saying the constitutional republic is at risk. >> i have a great deal of faith in america's constitutional republic and its ability to survive. it's survived richard nixon, war, a lot of threats to it, but
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that does not mean there will not be potentially and there are shaping up to be pretty foundational kinds of arguments. like this argument over conflicts of interest, over the emoluments clause, over whether the president-elect is going to be in violation of the constitution in the day he takes the oval office if he doesn't do something about his business holdings. i think donald trump is potentially going to press against the limits of what democratic norms have established and what the constitution seays. we may have big fights very early over very foundational questions. >> great example of this, a great test run was this was the russia investigation. donald trump pushed back on it very hard. mitch mcconnell immediately came out and said, oh, no. any republican that does not think that we need to investigate this has serious problems. mccain. he doesn't even have a majority in the senate if he steps out of line. this is what every president finds out when they get into the office. they get elected. they think they're the first person to ever crack the code.
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they get elected. and then they realize, like barack obama, they've got to figure out how to play with everybody. >> but here's the thing where i think the conflicts could be greater. it's because of the fact that you have a guy who does not care. i think we would all agree, about the future of the republican party. does not care at all. people like mitch mcconnell, paul ryan, other people as you suggest, who have a future within the republican party, who care institutionally about the senate, about those kind of prerogatives. those people are party men. he is not a party man. and he's not a politician. he doesn't care about washington. doesn't care about most of these things. his willingness to press the limits will be much greater than prior presidents who cared a lot more about the future of that institution and those institutions. >> if he presses the limits. he will come up against the same challenges as let's say congress does with the supreme court or the president does with congress. we even saw it with the affordable care act. you actually had justice roberts
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come in and uphold it as law twice. we have a very complex system of checks and balances. and i have written columns about this even before trump, that i get so tired of republicans saying the constitution and the republic was at risk because of barack obama. and before that, the constitution and the republic was at risk because of george w. bush. >> or bill clinton. >> and then the constitution and republic was at risk because of bill clinton. i wrote this column like five years ago, i think. have a little more confidence in our constitutional republic and the work of hamilton and madison. this is so tiring. worry about what you should worry about. we have an epa director, most likely, who denies climate change. >> that's a headline. >> that should be on the front of sunday review. denies climate change, when temperatures continue to
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skyrocket. sea levels continue to rise. you have a guy that's going to be labor secretary that is against the minimum wage. that put commercials out nationally that would embarrass me in front of my daughter. put that on the front of the sunday review. put general flynn's comments on the front of the sunday -- there is so much policy wise to worry about. instead of these stupid false narratives that they set up. this hyperbole, this hyperindividual lnvigilance tha serve readers. >> the hypervigilance led to a story that has now been proved wrong about, i guess, trump people running after a muslim woman screaming at her. and it was tweeted all over the place. i don't even want to repeat it and rehash it. and she made it up. but everybody jumped on it. everybody jumped on it because they love the concept. just like this.
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instead of -- >> just like donald trump. >> instead of what we have in front of us. >> what we had was a guy who came out yesterday and said oh, now people are complaining about the russia hack. which is false, it was october 7th. >> and by the way, "the new york times" puts this on the front of weekend arts and says that this nazi, this story about nazis has special relevance in post-election trump america. come on. come on. worry about global warming. stop your hypervigilance about things that will never happen and worry about things that will. if you get a climate denier running the epa. worry about that. >> you have all of that. >> and by the way -- >> as you mentioned, you have the incoming secretary of labor who doesn't believe actually in human beings doing the job. he wants robots doing a job. >> that's a story. >> you have the epa, you have
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the secretary of health and human services potentially incoming who wants to really privatize medicare, which means destroying it. >> still ahead on "morning joe," democrats struggle to win over white voters in some of the most reliably blue states. the question for the party now, win them back or let them go? but first, reports that evacuations from aleppo have been halted and new blasts are reported. we'll read from david ignatius' piece in "the washington post," why america was bound to fail in america. and here's bill karins a with a check on the forecast. >> we're watching winter weather across the country. getting done with arctic blast number one and then a snow storm and then arctic blast number two. yesterday, snow squalls in pennsylvania, only took about a half inch to an inch of white-out conditions and we ended up with a pile-up. this is 59 cars in total. jefferson county. pennsylvania. that was the scene in a couple spots, much smaller accidents, though. now we're dealing with the cold
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windchills. they were yesterday in the great lakes. today, boston, negative 13, caribou, nothing 24. when you get air this cold over relatively warm waters, you get pictures like this out of maine. how gorgeous does that look? it looks like steam. a lot of people call it steam. it's water vapor, the water is evaporating from the ocean that you're seeing there, and it's so cold that it's quickly condensing into clouds. but it still looks really cool. as far as the storm for the weekend, winter storm warnings going from michigan all the way back to idaho. 99 million people under winter weather advisories, too. the bulk of the snow is wyoming, south dakota, minnesota. 3 to 6 inches of snow. milwaukee could get more, and then 2 to 4 through much of new england when you wake up saturday morning. a winter weather weekend followed by very cold air in the midwest and into chicago by sunday. that's just a gorgeous shot. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.
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beautiful shot. >> we're going to talk about syria. david ignatius writes this in "the washington post." the fall of aleppo is a human catastrop catastrophe. it's also a demonstration of t perils of choosing the middle course in a military conflict. sometimes it's possible to talk and fight at the same time, but in syria, the u.s. decision to pursue a dual-track, halfway approach made the mayhem worse. a battered secretary of state john f. kerry made one more plea thursday for a peaceful evacuation of what's left of aleppo. but for five years, the united states' actions haven't matched its rhetoric. kerry's only real weapon now is the gruesome suffering of the syrian people, and it is gruesome, and the shame it engenders on everyone who watches. that shame hangs over this administration, too. >> mike barnicle, we have had jeffrey sachs on for the past several years. complaining about how the cia,
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the united states government, is trying to destabilize the assad government. and this is the middle course that david ignatius is talking about. they tried to destabilize the assad government. they got the rebels that they wanted fighting. and then by the time it became obvious they needed to fund those rebels, there was so many extremists in there, the choice got more and more difficult. and historians will show this in large part was a disaster of america's own making. >> well, largely, it was, yeah. >> sort of a modern version of the bay of pigs. encourage the revolt and then leave them there to die. >> yeah, there was a point four, five years ago when we could not figure out which elements of the resistance to arm. we didn't know which elements belonged to al qaeda or al nusra, and which were atop the
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assad regime. the pivot point came when the president said we're going to draw a red line, and the secretary of state, i think, i know, has fought behind the scenes within the administration for a long time about an alternative course. >> hasn't -- i would hope samantha power has also fought behind the scenes. >> absolutely. >> for an alternative course and been ignored. >> she absolutely has. >> she's been ignored. john kerry has been ignored. >> they haven't been ignored. they have been listened to. their arguments have been heard, but the president of the united states, and part of me understands this, was really and remains truly reluctant to insert any large elements of american troops into syria. at some point, that would become necessary. at the beginning, at the inception stage of this, the red line stage, there was a plan to take out the runways, to take out the dwindling elements of assad's air force, and they
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chose not even to do that. >> not even to do that. while the civilians were being bombed and killed and the french were saying we'll get involved, barack obama pushed back even on that. >> i want to look forward on this. when i ask you this question, at this moment, given everything we have seen over trump's candidacy and his time as president-elect, and everything he said about foreign policy and national security, i don't have a clue what his instincts are or what his world view is about this question. this is going to be his war in 30 days. 35, 33 days. what do you think he's going to do? where is his head at on this? >> his instinct is, i think if you look at everything on the campaign, his instinct is stay out. turn it over to putin. we want nothing to do with it. what we heard last night, and what you're starting to sense is from listening to general mattis and reading the tea leaves, he's actually got general mattis and others saying, no, you can't just stay out. you can't just turn it over to vladimir putin. we're going to have to get involved. what did you hear last night?
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you heard about safe zones. >> we'll see how tough he is. >> going in to start protecting the syrian people. i suspect, just me suspecting, i suspect if you take all of this together, it will be an international effort to provide safe zones, maybe as general hayden has said, along the turkish border. i will tell you, very distressed by what he said during the campaign, a little more hopeful right now that maybe general mattis is having an impact on his thinking here. >> coming up on "morning joe," enrollment in obamacare extended as people rush to get signed up. just ahead, we'll look at the potential fallout if and when republicans repeal and replace the affordable care act. we're back after this. ♪ the itsy bitsy spider went up the waterspout.
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during storm season we want our customers to be ready and stay safe. learn how you can be prepared at pge.com/beprepared. together, we're building a better california. all right, with us now, the president and ceo of independent blue cross, dan hilferty, and author of the online newsletter, dr. dave campbell. we talked about this last week. i want to talk about it again specifically because mike barnicle very concerned. life expectse is going down.
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first time this has happened in a very long time. why is it going down? what can we do to stem that tide? >> it's going down because people are dying younger than they were before. that's obvious. implicit. the reason for that is, however, very complex. we can learn from the fact that cancer rates didn't decline also. so what is it about cancer that's different than heart disease and strokes and other things? it's prevention, diagnosis, and treatment. we're preventing cancer because people are smoking less. we're diagnosing it earlier with advanced tests like pet scans and treating it better. >> let's look at the list. heart disease is up almost a percentage point, and chronic lower respiratory disease is up almost 3%. strokes up 3%. unintentional injuries up 7%. alzheimer's, i mean, a lot of
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numbers going up. cancer is one of the only ones, the one we fear the most, going down. what's going on, dan? >> if you look at the first couple you're talking about, it's diet, exercise, the way people are living their lives. if we get proactive about helping people get healthy, stay healthy, we have a chance to turn the curve back. the focus on cancer is because these incredible new technologies, incredible new drugs that are really focusing and targeting certain cancers. >> on lower life expectancy. do we know the demographics. is it white males between 50 and 65 dying? >> it is white males, white females and black males. the thing that strikes me is that the youngest group in there that are dying younger are dying of opioid overdose. heroin-related deaths. >> how big of a driver is that?
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drug deaths. how big of a driver is that to a lower life expectancy. >> a lot. in my county, last year, 216 deaths from heroin-related complications, overdoses. if you extrapolate that, which i did, 50,000 deaths per year in the u.s. from heroin-related problems of overdose. that's a lot of young people. that's going to drive the number down of life expectancy. and we need to do something, at least, about that. i agree with you. diet, exercise, lifestyle. that's the key. those are behavioral changes. we have to look at behavior. we look at mental health and improve that. >> but it's just not the behavior of the individual. it's the behavior of the system. if somebody goes in for some type of surgery or some other treatment, and they leave with a two-week, three-week prescription for oxycontin instead of some type of other pain reliever, sometimes it's
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not warranted. as a system, we need to better manage the use of these drugs. dangerous drugs. >> and today, you saw recently the study looking at the importance of going to the correct hospital when you have a health problem. we have known for a long time that centers of slenls are important. if you're having a hip replacement, it's well known you should go somewhere where they do a lot of hip replacement. now we know if you're in an ambulance and have a stroke, it's important that the ambulance driver takes you to the best hospital or your potential for dying is four times higher. that was published in the last few days. >> boy, mike, we found that out personally. andrew had his horrible fall. a massive trauma. it was touch and go for a couple days. people immediately said, go to bellevue. go to bellevue. you're saying, bellevue, what's bellevue? and the second we got there, we looked around and said, oh, my god, this is the best trauma unit in new york city. wouldn't have guessed it. but boy, i sure know now.
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it could have saved his life. >> god forbid anything happened to your children or yourself or your spouse or whatever. you're in a major city. you want the hospital where they have the most gunshot and knife wounds on a friday night. that's where you want to go. that's where the major league trauma units are because they know how to deal with things like that, but another interesting aspect of the median age coming down in terms of people dying younger, the geography and the culture of death, like in the middle of pennsylvania, or in rural america where people have lost jobs and lost hope -- >> new hampshire. >> yeah. and they're susceptible toopeioids and depression, and they die. >> i want to focus, if i can, dr. dave, on the system itself. regardless of where someone lives in an inner city or a rural area, if they're able to get to a primary care physician, if they're locked into a medical home, if they have an opportunity to get behavioral health, you use a job, there's a
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depression that sets in. but putting the system in place where people can get the care they need at the time they need it is crucial to stemming the tide. >> what's the future of pcps? >> they're crucial. it's a partnership between the insurer, the family, the patient, and the pcp. having realtime data and pathways that you monitor collectively to make sure you can get people well and stay well. >> final thought, dave. >> i agree 100%. as a doctor, being willing to expand pcps to really mean nurse practitioners, paramedics, health coaches. health coaches to take the older person at home and guide them through the difficult last few years of life so they don't miss their medicines. it's a broad answer to a broad problem, but almost old school making family oriented care the norm rather than what we do now.
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>> all right, dan hilferty and dr. dave campbell, thank you so much. come back. >> still ahead, the dow passed 19,000 a few weeks ago. now it's already making a run at 20,000. we go live to the new york stock exchange next. they are the natural borns enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary,
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the post-trump election, wall street crash, sara eisen, continues. the dow, as predicted, dropping to record lows. what can you tell us? >> as not predicted by anyone. i have this for you, joe. i'm holding it. not quite there yet. we're about 100 points away, but we are on guard here at the new york stock exchange for dow 20,000. never seen it before, but this post election surge of the dow, 8 prs
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8% in the last five weeks alone. >> what's driving that? >> hope and optimism and confidence. lower tax rates, specifically for corporations which would boost earnings. rolling back regulation, which are really hurting sectors like the banks. have fueled a lot of optimism in these stocks that earnings are going to go up and economic growth is going to go up next year. this is before any policy. the question now, improving ceo and investor confidence, does that in itself translate into higher growth and can the policies get delivered to match the optimism in the stock market. it is the biggest surge following any presidential election in history. >> wow. >> that climb in the dow. >> so sara, interest rates going up. >> yep. >> not having any impact whatsoever, huh? >> because interest rates are going up for the right reasons. the economy has improved. the unemployment rate has gone don to 4.6%. and that is notably stronger than where we were several years ago. we don't have to be in this
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emergency crisis style super low interest rate. the question is, is the fed's prediction next year of three interest rate increases going to come to fruition, and is it going to come at a time when the economy can handle higher mortgage rates and auto loan rates. that's the question. so far, investors are taking it in stride and they're hopeful. the question is also, can the rest of the world handle it? tighter rates here hurts emerging markets. >> let's see the hat again. hold that hat up. >> there it is. >> we didn't get to the discussion. >> if it happens today, i'll bring it to you next week. >> almost expected to say make the dow great again. >> dow 10,000, 1999. it's been a bumpy ride in between. >> no doubt about it. sara eisen, thank you so much. >> money and energy stocks. >> watch those babies. >> let me write that down. >> take a look at those. look at some research on that. >> we didn't get to your topic.
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>> coming up next. >> i'm not a big sleeper, like three hours, four hours. i toss and turn, i want to find out what's going on. >> a beep, a beep, i do that, too. >> tossing and turning, i beep and a beep. >> the founder of "huffington post," and she's good night sleep evangelist arianna huffington. i need that right now. i need some sleep. we'll be right back. ♪ i want a hippopotamus for christmas ♪ ♪ only a hippopotamus will do at the united states postal service, we deliver more online purchases to homes than anyone else in the country. and more hippopotamuses, too. ♪ so whatever your holiday priority, our priority is you. explore your treatment options
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53 past the hour. joining us now, founder of huff post and founder and ceo of her brand-new venture, thrive global. i know thrive. >> all right. >> because she let me have a little bit of a part of thrive. >> yes. >> in its inception. now she's global. arianna huffington. >> we love having you. i want to show the trump quick again about sleeping. >> i'm not a big sleeper. like three hours, four hours, i toss and turn, i think, beep, beep, i want to find out what's going on. >> beep, beep. beep. i feel his pain. because it's the same thing. you know, wake up at 2:00 in the morning. when i'm awake, i don't go back to sleep. the wheels are going. so what happens? how do you get past that? >> well, first of all, you need to look at all the new science that tells us that when we do that, we are not just less healthy but less effective as
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leaders. if we look at the leadership connection, the mckenzie group did a study that was published in the harvard business review. the connection between effective leadership and sleep deprivation because your cognitive performance goes down, your impulse control goes down, your decision making is impaired. when we launched the thrive global media platform, we had an approach from jeff bezos, it was why my sleeping ate hours a night is good for amazon shareholders. leaders need to make the connection. >> how much sleep a night? >> well, unless you have a genetic mutation, and 1.5% of the population does and they can do great on four hours, the vast majority need seven to nine hours. where you are in that spectrum is individual. when you get that, you're operating on all cylinders. right now, millions of people are running on empty. it's become like a public health crisis. >> it is. >> this is a serious issue.
quote
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many of the women i sleep with are insatiable and wake me up several times in the evening. >> did he just say that? >> shut up. >> this is really -- we're talking. >> that's not a problem because you know, it's our namer's ambien. i think it's fine. with the exception of women sleeping with donny deutsch. >> because they won't ever sleep again the rest of their lives. >> the only question ever asked by any woman in that situation with donny deutsch is how do i get out of here? >> by the way, and lock this door. >> for a lot of people, they are now dependent on whether it's ambien or ativan or other medication, they have gotten dependent on that. what is the best way to break that habit, that some people have been on for a decade. >> like a decade. >> so, first of all, science is the key. if they don't believe how important it is, they will
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continue treating it as something optional. that's what we teach when we're going to corporations. teaching them the science. then giving them microsteps for behavior change. the first is disconnecting from your devices. ideally, 30 minutes, at least ten minutes before you're going to turn off the light. and charging them outside your bedroom. because your phone is important to every challenge, every obstacle, in your life, and you need to disconnect to be able to sleep. having a transition to sleep is key, but also, we need to make the connection to the whole burnout epidemic around the world, the impact on mental health, depression and anxiety are up. you saw the rand study, sleep deprivation cost the economy $411 billion a year. so this is not a soft issue. this affects the bottom line. >> let me ask you about the
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human nature aspect of this. i don't disagree with any of what you say, and i agree with the idea of getting eight or nine hours of sleep, but the human nature aspect. jeff bezos gets eight or nine hours of sleep, he's worth $56 billion. you're worried about your kids' tuition, all sorts of things. >> absolutely. in fact, the bigger the struggle, the more you need that resilience. the more you need to tap into your inner strength. whether you're an individual or a nation, right now, we're going through times of dramatic change. people need to build their own immune system. when the country's immune system is lowered, we're more susce susceptible to fearmongering, demagoguery, all the things that come to the service. a individual and global problem. >> it's all related. when we look at the studies that came out this week and in the past two years about the next
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generation not doing as well economically, and also the life expectancy rate going down in terms of age, that's related to the health of our nation's economy, which leads to a lack of sleep. and bad health. >> we were talking earlier about the increase in heart disease, the increase in alzheimer's. they're connected to stress and burnout. if you go upstream, 75% of our health care problems and our health care costs are because of stress-related preventable diseases. we need to take this seriously. also, since you talk about leadership all the time, look at some of the leaders of the past. you know, fdr, when he had to make the big decision about entering the war, and the nation was against it, what did he do? he took time off to think and reflect. and he came back with his masterpiece of the land lease program. so leaders, advice to donald trump, need to realize they need
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to stop bragging about sleep deprivation, because it actually makes them less effective. >> arianna huffington. thrive global. >> donny deutsch, we didn't even -- >> oh, my god. i can't even -- >> the impact of human growth hormones on sleep. >> donny, let me tell you, thriveglobal.com. can you write something about the impact of middle of the night sex on sleep? >> i will absolutely do it. >> that does it for us this morning. mika is now covering her head. anwe're turning this over to stephanie ruhle who will actually get this train back on track. >> joe, i had actually written for thrive global, but it was never about middle of the night intercourse, i assure you. have a great weekend. i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning, so much to cover. hitting back. president obama vowing retaliation against russia. >> we need to take action. and we will. at a time and place of our own choosing. >> amid new evidence vladimir putin's direct involvement

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